EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW! Gashmeer Mahajani: Guru Dutt’s Pyaasa Made A Mountain Of Difference To Me

‘The
Song
‘Babuji
Dheere
Chalna’
from
Aar
Paar
Made
Me
Follow
Guru
Dutt’s
Cinema’

Q.
You
have
always
mentioned
that
you
are
highly
inspired
by
Guru
Dutt
&
it’s
him
who
made
you
think
about
films
in
the
first
place.
Which
was
the
first
film
of
Dutt
Saab’s
that
you
watched
&
do
you
recall
your
reaction
to
it?

A.
The
first
film
of
Guru
Dutt
Saab
that
I
saw
was

Pyaasa.
It
made
a
mountain
of
difference
to
me
with
the
language
of
cinema
that
I
got
introduced
to
while
watching
that
film.
More
than
that,
I
completely
for
the
first
time
ever,
thought
that
okay,
I
want
to
watch
this
man’s
movies
was
when
I
saw
‘Babuji
Dheere
Chalna’
song
from

Aar
Paar
in
which
there
was
a
massive
use
of
silhouettes.
There
is
this
lady
(Shakila)
dancing
by
a
table
where
there
are
a
few
men
sitting,
smoking
and
watching
her.
The
men
are
in
silhouettes…you
can
only
see
their
outlines
and
white
smoke
being
blown
into
the
light
while
the
girl
is
standing
in
front
of
them
and
dancing.
There’s
just
a
couple
of
feet
of
difference
between
the
men
sitting
at
the
table
and
the
lady
dancing.
She’s
completely
lit
up
and
the
men
are
in
silhouettes.
I
just
felt
that
was
a
piece
of
art
and
that
I
have
to
watch
movies
of
whoever
made
this
song
or
this
movie.
That’s
how
I
started
out
with

Pyaasa.

Q.
What
drew
you
towards
this
legendary
filmmaker?
And
today,
do
you
observe
any
of
that
influence
in
the
work
you
have
done
so
far
when
you
sit
back
&
reflect
upon
your
cinematic
journey?

A.
What
drew
me
towards
the
filmmaker
was
that
‘Babuji
Dheere
Chalna’
song
and
yes,
his
influence
stays,
I
think
even
today
in
the
last
fifty-sixty
years.
Nobody
can
shoot
a
song
the
way
Guru
Dutt
Saab
did
for
his
movies.
I
think
the
way
he
shot
his
songs
was
epic.
And
that
one
song
made
me
follow
his
cinema.
It
made
me
start
watching
his
movies.

‘I
Have
Followed
Guru
Dutt’s
Work
So
Much
That
I
Just
Want
To
Experiment
With
Designing
Songs
In
My
Films’

Q.
Be
it
the
use
of
alluring
black
&
white
close-up
shots,
light-shadow
play
or
the
ability
to
weave
multiple
thematic
layers
in
the
narrative,
Dutt
knew
how
to
ignite
great
cinema
on
screen.
As
someone
who
plans
to
get
behind
the
camera
in
the
future,
do
you
feel
his
cinematic
legacy
is
a
huge
source
of
inspiration
to
you
when
it
comes
to
breaking
away
from
formulas?

A.
Ya,
like
whenever
I
see
people
discussing
cinema
and
they
take
Guru
Dutt
Saab’s
name,
though
they
haven’t
in
detail
watched
his
movies
the
way
they
need
to
watched
or
deserved
to
be
watched
by
any
student
of
cinema,
I
often
see
a
lot
of
actors
around
me
throwing
out
names
like
‘Arey,
Guru
Dutt
Saab
ka
woh
‘Waqt
ne
kiya
kya
haseen
sitam’,
kya
woh
light
ka
shaft
aata
ha
upar
se..oh
my
god,
etc
etc,’

Woh
toh
kamaal
ka
tha
hi…but
if
that’s
the
only
reference
point
for
Guru
Dutt
Saab’s
songs
that
you
have
then
I
feel
there’s
nobody
more
shallow
than
you
because
I
feel
every
song
that
he
shot…If
you
are
talking
about
tight
close-ups,
the
song
in
the
bedroom
with
Meena
Kumariji
and
Rehmaan
Saab
in

Sahib
Biwi
Aur
Ghulam
(‘Na
Jao
Saiyan
Chhuda
Ke’)
where
she
is
not
letting
him
go
and
trying
to
keep
him
in
her
bed,
isn’t
that
shot
in
close-ups?

Now,
when
we
talk
about
language
in
cinema,
this
is
what
we
speak.
Why
is
the
song
shot
in
close-ups?
It’s
entirely
shot
in
supremely
tight
close-ups
in
the
bedroom
because
he
really
needed
the
intimacy
to
come
across
in
the
song.
So,
you
will
hardly
see
a
wide
shot
in
the
entire
song.
It’s
all
close-ups.
So
not
just
the
actor’s
intimacy
is
coming
into
play,
but
the
filmmaker’s
language
of
cinema
is
what
I
talk.
He
has
used
his
camera,
his
magnification
and
his
lens
to
create
the
intimacy
on
a
subconscious
level
in
the
mind
of
the
viewers
as
well.
So,
it’s
not
just
the
intimacy
portrayed
by
the
actors,
the
filmmaker
is
also
through
the
language
of
his
film-making,
portraying
that
intimacy,
creating
that
feel
of
intimacy
in
the
audience’s
mind.
From
the
same
movie,
if
you
see
the
song
‘Saakhiya
aaj
mujhe
neend
nahi
aayengi‘ in
which
all
the
background
dancers
are
all
girls.
In
the
entire
song,
you
don’t
see
a
single
background
dancer’s
face.
Only
the
girl
who
is
dancing
at
the
forefront
,
the
lead
dancer,
you
can
only
see
her
face
throughout
the
song.
Now
why
was
that
done?
Because
when
Guru
Dutt
Saab
landed
on
the
set,
he
didn’t
like
a
single
background
dancer.
He
wasn’t
happy
with
them
at
all,
the
way
they
were
looking.
They
had
limited
amount
of
time
to
shoot
that
song
because
of
location
and
budget
issues.
He
couldn’t
cancel
the
shoot
as
well
because
the
background
dancers
were
not
up
to
the
mark.
Since
he
couldn’t
cancel
the
shooting,
he
created
a
light
pattern
where
all
the
background
dancers
are
kept
in
silhouettes.
They
are
all
in
the
dark,
you
can
only
see
their
outlines
so
that
the
frame
doesn’t
look
empty.
But
he
didn’t
want
to
show
their
faces
because
he
wasn’t
very
happy
with
them.
So,
he
just
created
that
light
pattern
and
set
that
tone
for
the
entire
song.
It
works
brilliantly
well
so
you
can
see
only
the
lead
dancer’s
face.
There
is
not
a
single
background
dancer’s
face
visible
in
a
single
shot
throughout
the
song.
So,
these
fun
things
are
great
to
know
like
what
went
into
the
making
of
a
particular
song
and
today,
people
say
‘Arey
silhouette
create
kiya
hai,
oh
my
god,
kya
piece
of
art
hai!’
Arey
piece
of
art..aap
jaante
bhi
ho
kyun
kiya
thha
and

kaise
kiya
thha?
What’s
the
reason
behind
it?
So,
these
finer
details
are
so
nice
to
study
from
his
pieces
of
work.
‘In
Babuji
Dheere
Chalna’,
the
first
song
that
I
described,
the
art
of
Chiaroscuro
was
introduced
for
the
first
time
in
India.
Chiaroscuro
is
a
pattern
of
lightening
which
was
never
used
in
Indian
cinema.
Guru
Dutt
Saab
introduced
that.
Chiaroscuro
is
where
the
structures
are
lit
up.
No
where
in
Indian
cinema
were
structures
lit
up
earlier.
‘Babuji
Dheere
Chalna’
is
the
first
song
where
the
structure
is
lit
up
like
the
pillars
that
you
see
in
the
song
and
the
textured
walls
at
the
back.
Earlier,
only
the
subject
i.e
only
the
actors
used
to
be
lit
up
in
cinema.
Nobody
bothered
the
lighting
of
the
structures
to
create
a
visual
impact.
‘Babuji
Dheere
Chalna’
was
the
first
song
where
Chiaroscuro
was
used.
So,
all
these
lovely
things
that
I
got
to
learn
by
watching
the
making
of
his
movies
and
you
know,
figuring
his
way
of
shooting
a
song.
So
for
me
now
in
my
Marathi
films
recently,
I
have
shot
songs.
I
am
working
as
an
actor
in
those
movies,
but
I
have
requested
the
production
houses
to
let
me
design
those
songs.
So,
somewhere
that’s
inspired
from
the
kind
of
work
that
he
has
done.
I
have
followed
it
so
much
that
I
just
want
to
experiment
with
designing
songs
in
my
films
as
well
and
I
try
and
attempt
it.

‘A
Lot
Of
People
Nowadays
Pretend
To
Be
Suffering
Thinking
That
People
Will
Call
Them
Great
Artists’

Q.
I
have
often
heard
people
say
that
Guru
Dutt’s
films
are
a
testimonial
to
the
popular
quote,
‘Great
art
comes
from
great
suffering’.
What’s
your
take
on
that?

A.
It
does
apply
to
Guru
Dutt
Saab
that
great
art
comes
from
great
suffering.
(pauses).
But
I
think
that’s
just
one
aspect
of
it.
The
art
also
comes
from
a
lot
of
deep
rooted
passion
for
the
craft
of
making
movies
that
he
had
in
himself.
It
does
stem
from
that.
It
stems
from
a
lot
of
study;
self-study
and
study
of
the
things
that
are
happening
around
you
and
how
you
want
to
grab
them
in
the
lens.
There
are
multiple
facets
to
it.
I
think
you
just
can’t
limit
it
to
saying
that
great
art
comes
from
great
suffering,
although
suffering
was
a
very
big
part
of
Guru
Dutt
Saab’s
life.
A
lot
of
people
nowadays
pretend
to
be
suffering
thinking
that
people
will
call
them
great
artists
(laughs).
So,
it’s
quite
funny
how
people
use
this
quote
so
shallowly
and
easily
nowadays.

Q.
Speaking
about
the
genius
artist,
renowned
poet-writer
Kaifi
Azmi
who
worked
with
him
in
Kaagaz
Ke
Phool
had
once
said,
“Unki
naakamiyaabi
mein
ek
baat
yeh
bhi
thhi
ki
woh
waqt
se
pehle
paida
ho
gaye.” In
fact,
some
of
Dutt’s
popular
works
were
celebrated
only
post
his
demise.
Do
you
think
he
was
a
visionary
way
ahead
of
his
time?

A.
I
would
completely
agree
to
that
considering
a
few
of
his
films
like

Kaagaz
Ke
Phool
or
many
others
as
well.
But
I
think,
despite
of
that,
it’s
quite
credible
that
he
also
tasted
a
lot
of
commercial
success.
A
few
of
his
films
didn’t
do
well
which
are
classics
till
date.
For
example,

Kaagaz
Ke
Phool.
But
apart
from
that,
there
were
a
lot
of
films
that
did
commercially
well
and
are
pieces
of
art
at
the
same
time.
So,
having
that
blend
of
art
and
commerce
together
on
a
such
a
great
level
is
a
big
achievement.
So,
he
was
ahead
of
his
times,
there’s
no
doubt
about
it.
But
he
did
taste
success
as
well.
So,
it’s
a
feel
good
factor
for
fans
like
me.

‘I
Don’t
Think
There
Should
Be
A
Biopic
On
Guru
Dutt
Because
It’s
Scary
To
Even
Think
About
It’

Q.
Lastly,
if
any
one
plans
to
make
a
film
on
Guru
Dutt’s
life,
what
do
you
think
would
be
the
biggest
challenge?

A.
I
feel
if
anybody
plans
to
make
a
biopic
on
Guru
Dutt
Saab,
the
biggest
challenge
would
be
playing
the
man
himself.
I
feel
anybody
would
only
be
able
to
try
and
play
it
and
not
actually
play
it.
Also,
I
feel
scared
thinking
that
anyone
including
the
most
brilliant
actors
of
our
times
would
end
up
turning
his
portrayal
into
more
of
a
first
copy.
I
don’t
know…its
not
possible
to
wholly
and
wholesomely
portray
the
genius
that
he
was
very
realistically
at
the
same
time.
So,
I
feel
it
could
only
end
up
being
a
first
copy.
For
example,
like
you
have
an
iPhone
which
is
original
and
you
go
to
any
of
the
gulf
countries
where
on
the
streets,
you
can
buy
an
iPhone
at
20
percent
of
its
cost
which
is
a
first
copy.
It
looks
like
an
iPhone
completely,
functions
like
that,
but
can
shut
off
any
day
at
any
moment.
(laughs)
I
feel
playing
the
man
himself
would
be
the
biggest
challenge.
I
don’t
think
there
should
be
a
biopic
on
him
because
it’s
scary
to
even
think
about
it.